Grace/prayers?

[prettysocks]

This question is pretty much just for those of you who work at a non-religious camp. Or at least, a camp that isn't.. hardcore "Jewish based" or "Christian morals", etc. :p

Do you say grace before meals, or do prayers anytime in the day?

My Girl Guide camps used to, depending on the leaders.. and I hated it because I'm atheist. My current camp is so non-demoninational, it's awesome. They've even changed taps..
Day is done, gone the sun
From the lakes, from the hills, to the sky
All is well, safely rest
PEACE* is nigh

*changed from the typical GOD

WHAT ABOUT YOU? :D

[Flukie]

Girl Scouts is non-denom as well. I fought this battle last year at the camp I'm currently at. In one meal, they sang "God is Good" for grace, the Noah Song (So rise, and shine and give God, your glory, glory...), and "Spirit" ("You do a little giving and you praise the Lord above."). Ugh. We had staff ready to cry and staff insisting that it was no big deal. We compromised that if one grace had God, the other should not, and that the GIRLS needed to be picking the songs. If they picked a song with GOd, we sang it, but the staff couldn't suggest it.

I personally love non-denom because we have so many girls from different backgrounds. It lets everyone feel like they belong. I'll be the first to say that our final campfire songs, tradition for the last 45 years, do have God in them. I suck and up and sing - because I understand how that is part of the camp's tradition.

[Sparkes]

Although all the campers are Jewish, along with the directors and many of the American staff, we're technically not a religous camp. And we don't have grace or anything religous at camp. Well, some people choose to celebrate Shabbat, but its compleatly optional and its kept away from camp.

[Melk]

We sing grace. Usually if any one has a problem with it they stand out of respect but they do not say the grace.

[camper]

its weird. we are by no means a jewish camp w/the exception of a traditional friday night dinner/short service each week b/c most of the campers and a lot of american staff are jewish, plus a kosher-style kitchen (no mixing milk w/meat). none of our other programs or anything have anything to do w/being jewish, and the other stuff is more traditions that have been around in our camp forever. but all of our prayers before meals have some form of "g-d" in them:

"ohh the lord is good to me, and so i thank the lord, for giving me, the things i need the sun and the rain and the appleseed the lord is good to me"

"evening is here, the board is spread, thanks be to g-d, who gives us bread"

"father we thank thee for the night, and for the blessed morning light. for us and food and loving care, and all that makes the world so fair. help us to do the things we should, to be to others kind and good, in all we do in work or play, to grow more loving every day"

they could definitely all be used for other religions than judaism, which i think is why they've stuck around at our camp, but it would be interesting to have some that didn't say g-d in them.

[KiwiCRB]

We have something about God in nearly all of our graces. To my knowledge no one has ever had a problem with it mostly to do our location in the US.

God is Great ( to the tune of rockin around the clock)
God is great
God is good
Let us thank him for our food
We're gona thank him morning noon and night
We're gona thanks our God because he's out of sight
Amen ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch
Amen ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch (sorry that part is hard to type lol)

Coca-Cola (To the tune of the coca-cola song )
The sun will always shine
The birds will alwasy sing
As long as there is God
Theres always the real thing
Do do do do do do do amen
Do do do do God is the real thing.

The Hermits Prayer
If we all said a prayer for each other every day
What a wonderful world this would be
I would ask God to bless you and keep you every day
Knowing you'd say the same prayer for me.

Gracias Senor
Gracias Senor hallelujah
Gracias Senor hallelujah
Gracias Senor hallelujah
Gracias Senor

Back of the Bread
Back of the bread is the flour
Back of the flour is the mill
Back of the mill is the wind and the rain and the fathers will]

Lollypop
We thank thee Lord for a thousand things
For the flowers that bloom and the birds that sing
For the sun that shines and the rain that drops
For ice cream and raisins and lollypops

God Our Father (To the tune of Brother John)
God our Father, God our Father
Once again, once again,
We will ask thy blessing, we will ask thy blessing,
Amen, amen.

Johnny Appleseed
The Lord is good to me and so i thank the Lord
For giving me the things I need,
The sun and the rain and the appleseed;
The Lord is good to me.

And every seed that grows shall grow into a tree.
And one day soon there'll be apples there
For everyone in the world to share;
The Lord is good to me.

Thanks be to God
Thanks be to God the Father Almight
Thanks be to God who gives us this bread
Thanks be to God the spirit-eternal
Thanks be to God forever

Adams Family
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do do do do do do do do snap snap
We thank you for our food Lord
For mom and dad and you Lord
We thank you for this food Lord
To get us through the day
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do
Do do do do
Do do do do AMEN

Amen
Amen amen amen amen amen sing it over amen amen amen amen amen

ABC
A B C D E F G Thank you God for feeding me.

I think that's all.

[audur]

I work at a Girl Scout camp, and while we do still have the "god" in taps, we don't do grace... we do thanks :) We use a lot of the graces Kiwi posted (Back of the bread, Lollipop, Johnny Appleseed, and a different version of the Addams family), but instead of singing "god" or "lord" we usually replace it with "earth". Of course, if a girl wants to sing the original version, that's fine, but we don't teach them.

Our Back Of The Bread sonds like this:

Back of the bread is the flour
Back of the flour is the mill
Back of the mill is the rain and wind and the FARMERS will

And my favorite thanks is one that was taught to me last year... it's sooo pretty:

The eagle is thankful for the mountain
The fish are thankful for the sea
We are thankful for the wind and the rain
And for what we're about to receive

[prettysocks]

audur, i totally agree with you with the 'earth' thing. i think 'earth' and 'peace are perfect words that can (and in most all cases, will work) replace the word God, and it allows everyone to feel included. That said, I also understand that a lot of camps have traditions, and that will never change! :P

And THAT said, I do think a lot of you have very pretty (some I've heard before) graces! (just.. ya know.. replace that word God and I'll be set!)

My current camp, last summer said "facts" before a meal. This was a)for random interest b)to be educational and c) most important, we couldn't start a meal before the nurses were in the dining hall, so the fact was read after a nurse was present.

[rockinsmiles]

We vary rarely sing grace before a meal, in fact I don't even know if we did it this past year. If we do it is rather the Adam's family, Jonny Appleseed, or the Superman one. We normally have a quote and a moment of silence which we tell the campers they can say a grace, or think about the quote, or mediatate (for 10 seconds??) or whatever.

[prettysocks]

i like that idea too, rockinsmiles!

[KiwiCRB]

I think if we tried to take God out of our graces people would get upset. If we were in a different area of the country i'm sure it would be fine. But smack in the middle of the bible belt and our main feeder city having the most churches per capita of any in the nation (so I was told, I don't know if it is true or not).... things don't change very easily.

Speaking of my lack of knowledge of other religions I have a question about Kosher meals. Why is it that you can't mix milk with meat? I've heard several people mention it and I was just wondering.

[runrachrunn]

Speaking of my lack of knowledge of other religions I have a question about Kosher meals. Why is it that you can't mix milk with meat? I've heard several people mention it and I was just wondering.

Because you can't cook a calf in it's mothers milk. This rule has been stretched to cover the mixing of any meat product with any milk product.

From kosherman.com (http://kosherman.com) -->
Chapter 11 of Leviticus introduces us to the Jewish dietary laws, though the word "kosher," meaning proper, appears nowhere in these passages. (the word "kosher" does appear in the Book of Esther, when Haman tells Achashverosh that there is a people that does not do the "proper" thing in his realm). The Hebrew word "kasher" signifies that there is proper way to eat as a Jew, just as there is a proper way to behave in all situations.

The Torah's rationale for keeping kosher is fairly straight forward. We are to restrict our diets in order to emulate God's model of holiness. But we are still left wondering how controlling our diet leads to holiness. Some have suggested that the Jewish dietary laws are a matter of physical, not spiritual, health. Yet there is little evidence that the Bible is primarily concerned with the effect of the food we eat on our overall health (indeed, a great many kosher foods are not at all healthy and even lead to high cholesterol!).

I would suggest that the commandments that restrict what we eat and the manner in which we take life for food consumption are meant to improve our spiritual health. In this regard, the laws of kashrut focus on two important areas of human life: self-discipline and raising the level of our appreciation for the bounty of the world and life itself.

By restricting what we eat, the laws of kashrut teach us to practice self-discipline. In fact, the list of prohibited animals that we may eat is random (a pig is not prohibited because it is "dirty" animal and a cow is not permitted because it is "clean" one). Eating other living beings is in itself a compromise between the ideal existence of a human being- not taking any life for the sake of satisfying our hunger- and the reality of human nature- that part of us which cannot avoid brutality and self-indulgence. All of human life is an effort to transcend our basic nature- the ways that we are like animals- and elevate our lives to a higher level- emulating God's example of holiness by respecting all life forms in the world. Judaism is largely devoted to urging human beings to strive toward a higher plane of life, and the laws of kashrut are one of the ways that we do that. By practicing self-discipline, by overcoming temptation, by looking at something desirable yet refusing to indulge ourselves by having it, is the most ideal form of human existence. In short, keeping kosher is the Torah's way of urging us to transcend our basic nature and strive for holiness.

The laws of kashrut also encourage us to appreciate the bounty of the world. By restricting our diet, we are asked to express sensitivity toward the variety and beauty of life in this world. By not mixing milk and meat, we are asked to be aware that other forms of life also enjoy and rely on the bond between mother and child. By taking life in the most careful and painfree manner possible, we are asked to express a measure of humility and sensitivity toward other, lower forms of life. Kashrut, on whole, guides us toward a deeper understanding of the sanctity of all life.

That is why keeping kosher is not merely a matter of checking packaged foods for a "hechsher" (rabbinic certification). It is also a matter of creating an approach to eating in which we behave in a way that is civilized and dignified. The Jewish culture of eating includes affirming the Divine role in providing food for the world by reciting blessings before we eat, washing our hands to demonstrate that we are striving for a higher spiritual level as human beings, and expressing appreciation for the food that sustains us after we have eaten.

As the Torah tells us, we are to keep the dietary laws in order to strive for holiness. By behaving with sensitivity toward all life, by expressing appreciation for food, and by practicing self-discipline, that is exactly what we achieve.

[Flukie]

Here's some non-denom! These are some of the ones we use. My philosophy is how can I ask my staff to change if I don't offer them alternative choices. The year I was a counselor and we changed, we were left on our own to find non-denom. So now we give our staff copies of these and a copy is left in the DH.

Adams Family Grace
(Tune: Adams Family Theme)

Da, da, da, da! (Snap fingers twice.)
Da, da, da, da! (Snap fingers twice.)
Da, da, da, da, Da, da, da, da!
Da, da, da, da! (Snap fingers twice.)

We thank you world for giving,
The things we need for living,
For food and fun and friendship,
We thank you all today!


Barbie Grace
(Tune: Barbie Girl)

I am thankful for- a chance to eat once more
It's fantastic, please quick pass it
Thanks for health and food, friends and family too
Tasty libation that is this creation

Come on eat it, You can't beat it!
Oh oh oh yeah
Come on eat it, You can't beat it!
O-o-oo o-o-oo
Come on eat it, You can't beat it!
Oh oh oh yeah
Come on eat it, You can't beat it!
Amen, amen


Bless Our Food
(Tune: Make New Friends)

Bless our food,
We share with friends today.
Grant us peace and love along the way.


For Health and Strength

For health and strength and daily bread,
We our thanks to thee, amen.


Bless This Food
(Tune: Row Your Boat)

Bless, bless, bless this food,
Bless all present here.
And help us now to spread the love
To people far and near.


Circles of Love
Tune: Old Gray Mare

The circles of Love are common in my family,
Raining down from every tree,
Filling me with energy.
We hold hands to form a world of Harmony,
Singing the circles of Love.


For The Food We Eat
Tune: Kum-Bah-Yah

For the food we eat, we thank you,
For the friends we meet, kind and true.
For the fun we share, all day through,
We thank you, we thank you.


From My Heart
Tune: Heart and Soul

From my heart
I offer thanks and praise.
From my heart
For all these happy days.
Thankful for all the gifts I hold (pause)
Thanks from my heart and soul!


Girl Scout Way Grace
Tune: Auld Lang Syne

For all the bounty we receive,
Let us offer thanks and praise.
And be courageous, strong and fair,
As we live the Girl Scout way.


Grace
Tune: Are You Sleeping

We are thankful, we are thankful,
For our food, for our food.
And our many blessings, And our many blessings,
Thank - you, Thank - you.


Neath These Tall Green Trees

'Neath these tall green trees we stand,
Asking blessings from Thy hand.
Thanks we give to Thee above,
For thy health and strength and love.


Thank You for the World So Sweet

Thank you for the world so sweet;
Thank you for the food we eat;
Thank you for the birds that sing;
We thank you, for ev'rything.


Thank You
Tune: Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star

Thank you for the food we eat,
Thank you for new friends we meet.
Thank you for our Scouting days
As we learn in fun-filled ways.
May we always try to do
As we promised, duty true.


We Gather
Tune: My Bonnie

We gather to ask for your blessing,
We gather to thank you in prayer.
Please bless all this food we are sharing
And keep us in your tender care.


Johnny Appleseed

The world is good to me,
And so I thank the world.
For giving me, the things I need,
The sun and the rain and the appleseed
The world is good to me.


Back of the Bread

Back of the bread is the flour,
And back of the flour is the mill,
And back of the mill is the wind and rain, and nature’s will.


Scottish Grace

Some have meat and cannae eat,
And some have none that want it.
But we have meat and we can eat,
And so the world we thanketh.



Hark to the Chimes

Hark to the chimes,
Come bow thy head,
We give thee thanks,
For this good bread.


Thank You Gir Scouts
(Tune: Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star)

Thank the world for all that grows,
Thank you for the sky's rainbows,
Thank you for the stars that shine,
Thank you for these friends of mine,
Thank you for the moon and sun,
Thanks Girl Scouts for all you've done!


Alleluia, Amen
(Tune: Happy Birthday)

Alleluia, Amen
Alleluia, Amen
Alleluia, Alleluia,
Alleluia, Amen.


Girl Scout Mambo
(Tune: Mambo #5)

A little bit of breakfast on my plate,
A little bit of dinner, don't be late,
A little bit of gorp while on a hike,
A little bit of s'mores by firelight,
A little bit of brown bears on my stick,
A little bit of pudding, not too thick,
A little bit of ice cream in the can,
We all give thanks and say Amen.


For the Food We Eat
(Tune: Kum Ba Yah)

For the food we eat, we thank you,
For the friends we meet, kind and true.
For the fun we share, all day through,
Oh, Girl Scouts, thank You.

[CAMPFRIEND]

You all have some that I have never seen. I like them!~!

[KiwiCRB]

Wow Flukie there are some really cool ones there!

[prettysocks]

Flukie, wow! Lots!

Not to burst your bubble, but some of those ARE still religious, although not mentioning "God". By saying "Thanks we give to Thee above", it's obviously referring to some higher being in the.. sky. And "bless" means to make holy by religious rite, therefore being religious. And "amen" is (by dictionary definition) "The Egyptian god of life and reproduction" and "Used at the end of a prayer to express assent or approval", again making the 'grace' religious at heart!

I understand that a great deal of the USA is quite religious, and that this isn't atall a problem most of the time.... I'm just.. curious, I suppose. It always bugged me as a kid that Guiding forced me to say graces and the word God, when I never believed in that. Anywho.

[Sparkes]

As per the kosher deal, because we aren't technically a jewish camp, we prvide kosher options at meals. Like, if we have hamburgers, cheese is always served seperate. Also, you don't see milk at dinner or lunch unless you ask for it. That way, people who are kosher don't have a problem, but then for the rest of everyone they also have the non-kosher options. That way, everone wins!

[Flukie]

Amen IS used in most religions - including the UU church. (As is Alleluia.) If the UU church used it, we figured it modified ours enough.

And I agree that some are religious, though they don't directly state G-d or Lord. But because they do not mention that, girls have the option to thank any higher power or to not participate. (Not participating is ALWAYS an option and we make sure girls know that.) We again went to a UU minister to get feedback - because if you want to quantify a religion as "religous" UU is probably the least. (And I say this as a UU. :) ) Some of it goes back to what Kiwi pointed out, a lot of people don't want to see G-d taken out of GS - and that is what they think is happening. It's even created another scouting group called American Heritage Girls that place emphasis on G-d in their program.

(I'm not sure this makes much sense - it's been a really long day. Lol. But I totally agree that some of ours are still "religous" - but when we compare them to the ones that have G-d in them 12 times in four lines, it works for us! :))

[Rainbow]

At the GS camp I work at Superman is the favorite grace to do and Johnny Appleseed also is done once is a while. Were a day camp and grace is only done as units on wed cookout and then when the camp has campfire and or sleep over and girls pay extra to stay for dinner and program and or over night if there 4th grade and up select weeks. Other then that it is up to a girl to privatly pray.

[tajarbud]

Just some background information on the issue of "God" and the Girl Scout use of the word. This info is directly from the GSUSA web site. :) It may shed some light on some issues that have been brought up in this thread.


The Girl Scout organization does not endorse or promote any particular philosophy or religious belief. Our movement is secular and is founded on American democratic principles, one of which is freedom of religion. That is why Girl Scouting provides flexibility in speaking the Girl Scout Promise. An individual member may use the word or words for "God" that best reflect her own spiritual beliefs. While we believe the motivating force in Girl Scouting is a spiritual one, we do not attempt to dictate the form or style of a member's worship. Religion is a private matter for girls and their families to address.

All Girl Scouts make the Girl Scout Promise

Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
to be a sister to every Girl Scout.
* The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.

[runrachrunn]

As per the kosher deal, because we aren't technically a jewish camp, we prvide kosher options at meals. Like, if we have hamburgers, cheese is always served seperate. Also, you don't see milk at dinner or lunch unless you ask for it. That way, people who are kosher don't have a problem, but then for the rest of everyone they also have the non-kosher options. That way, everone wins!

Sparkes, Yes, this seems to be happening more and more, so as not to exclude anyone.

Also, kosher meat is also considered to be "halal" for those individuals who observe this tradition, so this is just one more step in ensuring inclusivity.

[prettysocks]

This thread IS off topic, but... who am I to care..

And Girl Guides of Canada, says...

PROMISE
I promise to do my best,
To be true to myself, my God/faith* and Canada;
I will help others,
And accept the Guiding Law.
*Choose either the word God or the word faith according to your personal convictions.

LAW
The Guiding Law challenges me to:
-be honest and trustworthy
-use my resources wisely
-respect myself and others
-recognize and use my talents and abilities
-protect our common environment
-live with courage and strength
-share in the sisterhood of Guiding.

And WAGGGS, which every country involved in Guiding is a part of, believes that, "every girl deserves to be who she is and to develop into a strong woman, regardless of race, colour, or religion/beliefs."

Anyways, I don't even work at a GG camp, so what do I care for the purpose of this board, eh?? :P

[lifer]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but Jaws is my fave grace. You have to do it with your hands clasped over your head (like a fin) and sing to the tune of Jaws (obviously):

God is.... great and
God is.... good and
let us thank him for our food
AAAA-men ! (and you make a big jaw snap with your hands on the 'men')

[happy_camper]

My camp is smack in the Deep South Bible Belt, so we've never actually had a problem with having God in our graces. During resident camp, we say grace before every meal. We also do flag ceremonies every morning and every afternoon (day and resident camp). Like I said, we never had a problem with religion, but if someone does, they have the option to not participate - obviously we are not going to force them to pray to someone the don't believe in. We did have one girl in day camp, however, who's religion did not honor the American flag... or something like that. But she wasn't forced to participate in flag ceremonies.

[YUrocks!]

I find this whole thread to be very interesting.

One question though, if you are not thanking God or a higher power of some kind when you say grace, what is the purpose of saying grace? Why bother?

Any thoughts?

[laurathistle]

I find this whole thread to be very interesting.

One question though, if you are not thanking God or a higher power of some kind when you say grace, what is the purpose of saying grace? Why bother?

Any thoughts?



Perhaps the thanking part is for the kitchen staff!

[Trees]

Also just being thankful for the food... not everyone gets to eat the way we do. Some people are thankful to the animals, if they eat meat, or to the farmers and farmworkers.

[prideeinpynk]

I understand that a great deal of the USA is quite religious, and that this isn't atall a problem most of the time....

I wouldn't say that's true. There are so many different groups of people in the US and many of them have strong beliefs one way or another. I would say that we are becoming a country that focuses more on "political correctness" than anything else. Yes, most people are religious in some way, but because there is such a push from those who are not or who hold beliefs other than Christianity its been common to ere on the side of caution and leave it out.

[prideeinpynk]

I find this whole thread to be very interesting.

One question though, if you are not thanking God or a higher power of some kind when you say grace, what is the purpose of saying grace? Why bother?

Any thoughts?

I think it teaches the kids to be thankful for what they have. Saying grace in a religious sense is thanking God for providing for you; if you leave out the religion you can still thank those who worked hard to bring food to the table.

I also think it had a great deal to do with unity among the campers. If they have little sayings and gestures that they share together, only at camp, it acts to build the sense of community which keeps them having fun and coming back each summer.

[Trees]

The US is, as a whole, VERY religious--specifically Christian--compared to Canada and Europe. That's an accepted truth. While I understand your frustration with "political correctness", being "PC" is generally about finding a place for oneself (or protecting the rights of others) within this culture.

[prideeinpynk]

The US is, as a whole, VERY religious--specifically Christian--compared to Canada and Europe. That's an accepted truth. While I understand your frustration with "political correctness", being "PC" is generally about finding a place for oneself (or protecting the rights of others) within this culture.

I wasn't trying to convey any frustration, and I don't believe I made any type of statement that seemed that way. I'm not religious, but I don't stress political correctness either. I live sort of in the middle of everything. I was just describing the two factions that live in our society to someone who does not live here.

I wouldn't say it was an "accepted truth" either. Just because our government officials use religion for justification doesn't mean that everyone agrees with it. I think that its a perception that is not as true as outsiders might believe it is.

[Trees]

Shrug. You sounded frustrated to me, but now I understand more where you're coming from. But honestly, it is accepted among the worldwide media (which does mean something) that the US is more religious than Canada or European countries. I agree, everyone doesn't believe in the way the current US government uses religion for justification. But more people are very religious in the US than in Canada or Europe.

I haven't found that most people outside the US assume we all believe in / trust our government, though I've heard that attitude exists.

Anyway, back to grace at camp. This is one of the camp traditions that most of our international staff is really surprised by, especially people from eastern Europe; but it's far eclipsed by the flag ceremony in surprisingness, to them.

[these.city.lights]

why do internationals get surprised by flag ceremony?
What is involved in the flag ceremony?

[laurathistle]

I hope no one tries to force me to pledge allegiance, I really wouldn't be comfortable with that.

[these.city.lights]

You can do it but change it to our country!!!

I wouldnt feel comfortable doing that either, nor would I saying prayers or grace. Im not religious.

[Trees]

No, nobody will force you to say the pledge... or even want you to. After all, for those people who find it meaningful, if people say it without meaning it, it's less meaningful for all. (I couldn't think of any better way to say that; I hope it makes sense.) Internationals just stand quietly during the pledge.

I think it's just a foreign concept for many internationals, who don't have to stand up and pledge allegiance every morning at school for years. It seems creepy and semi-military, and the idea of making sure the flag doesn't touch the ground and gets folded in a triangle is like, "what? it's a PIECE OF CLOTH".

I don't know how many of your camps will do regular flag ceremonies... I've been at a camp with the occasional ceremony, with regular flag raising and lowering but no pledge of allegiance, and with daily formal pledge. I don't say it, myself; I think it's ridiculous. But I do attend the flag ceremonies and teach people how to do them. You may have to learn how to fold the flag, etc, so you can teach your campers, but they'll all know the pledge already.
It goes like this:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag, and to the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

A simple flag ceremony generally consists of everyone standing in formation around or in front of one or more flag poles. A "color guard" will carry the flag to the pole and post it (following commands from a caller). The group will recite the pledge, hands on hearts, then the color guard will be dismissed, then the group. In the evening, the opposite occurs, but no pledge, and many camps sing "Taps". Ceremonies can be much more complex, though, with poetry and patriotic songs and so on.

[these.city.lights]

ALL I CAN SAY IS...

BLOODY HELL!

Thats quite intense and thorough!
I dont mind standing there that will be fine. Why cant it touch the floor?
What happens if it touches the floor at the flag making shop? Do they have to throw it away?! Thats baad throwing the american flag away!

[laurathistle]

Of course I will be respectful, but I don't want to say the words and put my hand on my chest.

Is there many people in America who refuse to say the pledge because if the reference to God? Is it in reference to one God and any God?

[tigerfan]

Laura, there are people who won't say the pledge for that reason. Also, some people leave the 'under God' part out. Various people have tried to have the court system remove 'under God' from the pledge, but (if I'm correct) the phrase has not been found unconstitutional.

Where I'm from though, small-town Southern U.S., by and large everyone says the pledge as most people are pretty religous and it is considered rather acceptable to mention God in everyday life.

[Trees]

Yeah, I would say even in California that it's fairly rare for people to not say the pledge. Jehovah's Witnesses don't, and an atheist probably wouldn't or would leave out Under God. I have more issues with the "liberty and justice for all" part (claiming that the US offers something it doesn't).

The latest lawsuit regarding removing "under God" from the pledge was mostly laughed or grumbled at; most people don't take it seriously. And though it's never specified, we're clearly talking about the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God in the pledge (since the other major religions don't have one God). Under God only came into the pledge in the 1950s, oddly enough (to show we aren't Communists).

It really isn't something most of the children think about because they're so used to it. The Pledge is mostly used in schools and to open special meetings (ranging from bank meetings to Congress)--and at camps.

Letting the flag touch the ground is a sign of disrespect. Sometimes the kids will freak out if it touches the ground, saying it has to be burned, but that's really only when the flag gets old and dirty or frayed. Then it can be carefully burned or buried.

But yeah, Laura, you won't be expected to do any of that.

[KiwiCRB]

I totally have a response to all of these but I've just spent 14 hours in a van so I can't come up with a good one until have a good night sleep.

[laurathistle]

Our Queen's official title is "By the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith"

The Latin for Defender of the Faith is Fidei Defendor and an abbreviated version of this (usually F.D.) is on all British coins

Prince Charles, the Queens son and heir to the throne says when he becomes King he will change it to Defender of the FAITHS. It will have to go through parliament and everything.

[Camp_cullen_freak_2004]

We have something about God in nearly all of our graces. To my knowledge no one has ever had a problem with it mostly to do our location in the US.

God is Great ( to the tune of rockin around the clock)
God is great
God is good
Let us thank him for our food
We're gona thank him morning noon and night
We're gona thanks our God because he's out of sight
Amen ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch
Amen ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch (sorry that part is hard to type lol)

Coca-Cola (To the tune of the coca-cola song )
The sun will always shine
The birds will alwasy sing
As long as there is God
Theres always the real thing
Do do do do do do do amen
Do do do do God is the real thing.

The Hermits Prayer
If we all said a prayer for each other every day
What a wonderful world this would be
I would ask God to bless you and keep you every day
Knowing you'd say the same prayer for me.

Gracias Senor
Gracias Senor hallelujah
Gracias Senor hallelujah
Gracias Senor hallelujah
Gracias Senor

Back of the Bread
Back of the bread is the flour
Back of the flour is the mill
Back of the mill is the wind and the rain and the fathers will]

Lollypop
We thank thee Lord for a thousand things
For the flowers that bloom and the birds that sing
For the sun that shines and the rain that drops
For ice cream and raisins and lollypops

God Our Father (To the tune of Brother John)
God our Father, God our Father
Once again, once again,
We will ask thy blessing, we will ask thy blessing,
Amen, amen.

Johnny Appleseed
The Lord is good to me and so i thank the Lord
For giving me the things I need,
The sun and the rain and the appleseed;
The Lord is good to me.

And every seed that grows shall grow into a tree.
And one day soon there'll be apples there
For everyone in the world to share;
The Lord is good to me.

Thanks be to God
Thanks be to God the Father Almight
Thanks be to God who gives us this bread
Thanks be to God the spirit-eternal
Thanks be to God forever

Adams Family
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do do do do do do do do snap snap
We thank you for our food Lord
For mom and dad and you Lord
We thank you for this food Lord
To get us through the day
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do snap snap
Do do do do
Do do do do
Do do do do AMEN

Amen
Amen amen amen amen amen sing it over amen amen amen amen amen

ABC
A B C D E F G Thank you God for feeding me.

I think that's all.

we also do the adams family one but we sing
"dodododo snap snap
do do do do snap snap
do do do do do do do do do do do do snap snap
we thank you lord for giving
the food we need for living so bless us while we eat it because we relly need it

[laurathistle]

I hope no one tries to force me to pledge allegiance, I really wouldn't be comfortable with that.


I like reading through all these old post from last year and from before I went to camp!

So my camp did do flag up/down every day and of course the pledge. I was kinda surprised at myself because I am generally very tolerant of other cultures/customs/religions but for some reason I really hated having to stand through this. I think part of the reason was that so many of the kids - and some staff - were being blatantly disrespectful yet I still had to be.

I got over it by singing my nation anthem in my head! I can be so childish sometimes!

[Smudge]

I always hate it when the americans and the campers were like that! Another pet peeve was when they would chew and snap gum during chapel - especially when it was the older campers who should know better!

[annknee]

I personally was more annoyed when international staff would join in the pledge - not sure why exactly but think it was more to do with the fact that it meant that people would gladly disown their country and hop on the next available bandwagon! I would always stand up and be respectful during flag etc. but other international staff would say the pledge which just struck me as wierd

[Smudge]

I have never seen that before - I would never say the pledge! But that is partly cos I have an issue with pledge allegiance to a flag!

[annknee]

if i had to pledge an alleigence to a bottle of smirnoff....!

[Smudge]

currently the only thing, person or idea (whatever you choose it to be) I would pledge alligance to is God!

[CampCherith]

I agree with smudge 100%. I'm an Christian American and I don't like pledging allegiance to a flag. My allegiance is to God. I love my country and would give my life in defense of her, but I will put her before my Lord.