Punishments At Camp

[speedx5xracer]

So I figure it this way there are multiple different ways of diciplining campers over the summer. I was just curious what alternative punishments do you use.

Human Rake- Camper beautifies part of camp by picking up trash (usually 5 pieces) in response to an offence

Reduction of Flashlight time- Remove part of the 15minutes of flashlight time in response.

[Dave]

If our kids are bad, sometimes we'll make them stay at lunch after it is over and help the counselors clean up. This also cuts into their popsicle time. :P

[camper]

like i said before...we don't really just give punishments ever that are separate from the offense...no time outs, no taking away of anything. if the kids (or one kid) make a mess at the table at a meal, the kids that messed it up have to stay after and clean the table. if the kids are being loud at a lineup, we wait until they are completely quiet, and they know that will just take them that much longer to get to whatever activity it is they're going to.

[code3cadet]

I if the kids are talking at bed time I make them sleep out on the deck with me. I love it on the deck it is a lot colder. But most of the time the kids like sleeping out on the deck so it is not that much of a diciplin.

But I if you get the camper to make there own diciplin. Like if the kids is thoughing rocks. you sit the kid down ask him what he was doing and ask him what he thinks he should do for thoughing the rocks. They hug a tree for 5 min or do something like that

[Dave]

I if the kids are talking at bed time I make them sleep out on the deck with me. I love it on the deck it is a lot colder. But most of the time the kids like sleeping out on the deck so it is not that much of a diciplin.

But I if you get the camper to make there own diciplin. Like if the kids is thoughing rocks. you sit the kid down ask him what he was doing and ask him what he thinks he should do for thoughing the rocks. They hug a tree for 5 min or do something like that

:laugh3: I'd love to watch a kid hug a tree for five minutes! (I don't think I'd ever actually make them do that though.) :laugh3:

[CAMPFRIEND]

:laugh3: I'd love to watch a kid hug a tree for five minutes! (I don't think I'd ever actually make them do that though.) :laugh3:

You need to becareful with that one! Just the thoughts of a director.;)

[speedx5xracer]

Dave, Code3Cadet both of the punishments that you suggested are funny but banned at my camp as well as many others ive been to. Infact in Pike county the hug a tree is seen as child abuse( I was one of the last year of cmapers to endure that before the law passed) . Dont even get me started on forcing a kid to sleep out of a bunk especially if its alone w. a staff member.

[CAMPFRIEND]

Speed - I think that you are right. You have to be so careful how you deal with campers. I hope that all of us think before we act when we are dealing with campers. Becareful!

[who_stole_my_loofa]

Haha just curious why is hugging a tree considered child abuse? I've never even heard of this as a punishment haha.

At my camp we always do warnings and talks before real punishments. If you talk with a kid they are more likely to acknowledge what they did wrong, so if they do it again it's out of defiance rather than a poor judgement. I always get on their level- never stand over them so they don't feel like they are being talked down to and I also try not to sound condesending or trite.

If it becomes an act of defiance rather than poor judgement it depends on the situation. Some things we do include: stacking chairs in the dining hall after meals, doing an extra chore in the cabin (usually the counselors chore), taking away part of free swim, sitting out for part of an evening program, going last for camp store, etc. Everything is very situational though. If any of these minor punishments don't work then it is passed on to the unit leader.

I have also found group punishments to be effective. It's not fun for the non-offenders, but if you tell the group to like stay in line and then 3 people step out- the others should tell them to step back in. So if they don't then the cabin would have to be last for camp store or whatever. And then the other kids kind of get on to those few and it becomes a group effort to follow directions. You have to be careful what situation you use this in though cause it can turn into like 11 against 1 and that equals drama!

We're not allowed to take away most anything though. We can't take away camp store, trips, options, usually evening programs(unless authorized by the UL/CL), etc. We can take away flashlight time though... but I would never! haha

[camper]

we're not allowed to take away anything unless it is directly related to the offense of the camper really (like having to go to the end of the line for throwing a tennis ball into the middle of the court when someone else is hitting, and that doesn't even really count haha), and most of the time not even that. and we're DEFINITELY not allowed to give any kind of physical punishment (like running somewhere, hugging a tree, etc.)

[who_stole_my_loofa]

lol I still don't get the whole tree hugging thing.

[collissimon]

We don't punish children, but if they behave poorly, they earn consequences. I know this sounds like fussy semantics, but it's to separate the child from the behaviour (so they don't feel bad about themselves because of it) but also is a constructive way to end the incident.

Consequences are really diverse, and can be quite creative. For example, one of my favourites is to make a poster. It takes some time off (usually from Horseshoe time, which is free time after dinner, or a specific activity: Go-Karts is a good one, because they are all sitting waiting their turn anyway, it just means they can't go first but still get a full go). You can also relate specifically to the behaviour, a prime one is throwing stones because you can ask the kid to write, or draw a picture of three things that could happen if he continued to throw stones e.g. hit a window, cat, camper etc. In this way you're getting a kid to think through the consequences themselves.

I really like getting the kids to think of their own consequence too cadet! Usually they are really harsh on themselves (I played up at dinner: send me home!), so it means you can put it in perspective for them, and they'll do the consequence willingly because they're happy not to be sent home!

[speedx5xracer]

Loofa the tree hugging is "abuse" Because its a physical punishment and can result in an injury. I dont agree with it that way but i do under stand it.

[CAMPFRIEND]

Speed- That is what I was going to say!

[rockinsmiles]

Never heard of the whole tree huggin thing either. What about if you just had the camper give the tree a quick hug (not the whole 5 minute thing cuz that does sound a bit long)?
Anyways as far as consequences goes it really depends on the camper and what they did. I know a lot of staff are gung hoe on taking away free swim just because the majority of campers like that activity and it is "easy" to take away. However i only would take a way some pool time if the camper acted out during pool. And it would be at that pool period for no more than 5 minutes. We arent allowed to any physical labor stuff either which i think is true for most camps. One of the best consequences of last year was for these girls that tried sneeking out of their cabin around 1:00 in the morning. The director caught them trying to crawl out a window. At canoe the next day those that were guilty didnt get to go canoing. Instead they had to sit on these sepperate benches which are by the lake with their backs turned towards the lake. that way they could hear all the fun the other campers were having but they couldnt actually see them. of course sneeking out of the cabin is a big no-no at camp. I had girls try sneeking out as well besides it was in the middle of the day. since it was the day the girls went home my co-cabin counselor and i didnt know what to do so i asked the director. he said really the only thing we could take away would be the fact that they couldnt come to camp next year. so we told the girls that that might be a consequence of their actions. this really scarred them and we kept it that way for a few hours. when we told them that we werent going to do this it was a huge relief to them but i think it got the message across that sneeking out of the cabin is wrong.

I also had a camper right a paper on respect after she had mocked me (caught by another counselor) and once i told 2 campers they could not talk for 5 minutes because they had been arguing/making fun of each other. i have to be really careful about when i use that though because it is easy for a camper to break it. basically i knew they would keep quiet because we were at the climbing wall and i was belieghing (only staff there) and they know that my attention needs to be on the person climbing. if campers are talking during rest period i rather have them sit with me or i will sit in there area of the cabin. i know of staff who will tell campers they will wake them up 15 minutes early or something but i mean they arent actually going to get up 15 minutes early themselves so i think it is pointless to tell a camper that. Ok sorry this was kind of long...there is actually more i could say on this subject but i will stop here :D

[collissimon]

That was a really good post smiles!

I agree it's all about following up on your actions. They know when you don't follow through, so know to play up for you, because you will threaten consequences and not follow them up.

Having said that, I know I've done that before!

[CAMPFRIEND]

Things have changed over the years. NOw you have to becareful of everything that you do. That is one of the big reasons I have to spend so much time on the phone with parents. I have to make sure that I talk to them before the kids do. That is one of the big reasons that I want to go back to overnight camp!! Kids don't go home every night. I also think as a director it's not as hard to deal with the campers.

[rockinsmiles]

oh i think we all have...its part of the learning experience for working at camp! it just really bugged me when i was a CIT and my counselor would do that to the campers. I still remember a counselor telling the campers "you know im not that i dont mean it!" ugh!

[rockinsmiles]

Things have changed over the years. NOw you have to becareful of everything that you do. That is one of the big reasons I have to spend so much time on the phone with parents. I have to make sure that I talk to them before the kids do. That is one of the big reasons that I want to go back to overnight camp!! Kids don't go home every night. I also think as a director it's not as hard to deal with the campers.

Why do you think it is not as hard to deal with campers when you are the director?

[collissimon]

I think you can go too far the other way though, we had an insurance man come talk to us the other year and it was horrible! He made you feel like anything beyond a tap on the back (i.e. no hugs, hi-fives whatever) were borderline abusive!

Maybe I don't appreciate what a sue-culture you guys have, but it just seems faintly ridiculous: if a kid came up to me wanting a hug, I wouldn't push them away, because that could make them feel worse! I would just make sure it wasn't in a private place, or wasn't where no-one could see me.

[CAMPFRIEND]

For me it's that I have to make the call's if a camper needs to go home or is past the point that we can help. I have a degree in social work and I think that helps. I wish that I could help every camper that comes in my door but I can’t. I have to do what is best for all of the campers at camp. It seems that most of my day is dealing with campers that are in trouble or their parents. Also at my camp I try to make it so my counselors are never the bad guy! They are the ones who are with the campers all the time. I just step in when needed to make the counselors life easier. I think and hope that is what all directors do!

[speedx5xracer]

I think you can go too far the other way though, we had an insurance man come talk to us the other year and it was horrible! He made you feel like anything beyond a tap on the back (i.e. no hugs, hi-fives whatever) were borderline abusive!

Maybe I don't appreciate what a sue-culture you guys have, but it just seems faintly ridiculous: if a kid came up to me wanting a hug, I wouldn't push them away, because that could make them feel worse! I would just make sure it wasn't in a private place, or wasn't where no-one could see me.

We had someone come to from AMSKIER our insurence company. He goes a little over board but in all seriousness the paranoia he sets in people is a good thing.

[CAMPFRIEND]

I think that it's a good thing to a point. Some times it's just pushed to far and can effect some counselors and the way that they work!

[Dave]

It seems my camp is a lot more lenient when it comes discipline. It's strange how stuff that happens all the time in our camp is banned in others. I don't think our camp would allow tree hugging though. Couldn't that be considered a cruel or unusual punishment?

[camper]

yeah collissimon, our guy is norm friedman like speedx's and he makes you feel like a pedophile before you even have campers. but it is partly a good thing b/c people that have never dealt w/kids so continuously before need to know how they could get themselves in trouble.

[rockinsmiles]

We dont have anyone come and talk about stuff like that but our director and owner could do just as good of a job i think. but they dont go over board or anything which i like but they are VERY serious about it.

[who_stole_my_loofa]

oh smiles post reminded me of something that happened to me when i was a camper lol! we did something pretty bad and um pretty much got caught in the boys cabins being bad and yeah no details. So we got caught and they told us that they were calling our parents and they told us to write detailed letters to our parents saying what we did and why we did it and how sorry we were. Then they said they would mail them. So for the last like 2 weeks of camp we were all freaking out the whole time and sometime during the last week the director came and got all of us and had a campfire set up on the beachfront and let us burn our letters to our parents. It was the best camp punishment I've ever had lol. I'd only use this for older kids though cause younger kids would probably flip out.

Loofa

[collissimon]

What does this Norm Friedman guy look like? We're all in the same area, so it might be the same guy.

We had a husband and wife team this year, and they were a lot better, though it still makes you a little scared. Maybe it's because when you have talks in the UK, they are always very earnest and sombre, whereas in the States it's more polemic, with boogey monsters out to scare you!

[camper]

haha norm is an overweight guy about in his 50's w/a VERY distinct voice. i think his hair is white? his voice is low and has a pretty heavy ny accent. he's from the amskier insurance company so if your camp uses them, you've probably had him before.

[speedx5xracer]

And he likes using the name bruce as the child molester in alot of his stories. Its kinda his trade mark

[collissimon]

I think we had him in 04! I think we've changed though (will wait and see next summer!) He was quite intimidating, in that he was always predicting doom and destruction!

[camper]

yeah the name bruce which is very scary b/c that is my dad's name lol

[KiwiCRB]

Pretty much the biggest thing we do is take away swim time. It's only like two minutes but when its 90-100 degrees in Texas, that feels like a lot when all your friends are having fun.
That tree thing is really weird... and it could be dangerous, at least at my camp. We have brown recluses, black widows, bees, wasps, hornest, rattle snakes, velvet ants, fire ants, and numerous other that could be harmful lurking on or around trees. I know i wouldn't want to deal with a camper that had been bit by any of those things.

[Indigo]

We aren't really allowed to 'punish' kids. Wranglers and lifeguards can take away riding or swimming time, we can have 'serious talks' with them, and the ad staff can go a little farther, though I'm not entirely sure what they can do other than more talking, and sending home in some cases. The year before I worked at my camp, one staff member made a little girl who couldn't read well yet read the ingredients on a soup can. The next year, we were told that was one of the things that wasn't allowed!

[campCardinal]

At our camp the punishments are usually directly related to the offense. Examples:
-Breaking pool rules continually (after being told of them a couple of times) -- reults in sitting next to the life gaurd for a minute or two
-Arguing in four square or not playing by the rules -- simply sit out the rest of the game, if it's really bad the ball is taken away until the next play time.
-Misbehaving at the lake- sit with a counselor on the beach and talk for a couple minutes before being allowed back in the water.
-Food fight or being really messy in the dining hall (on purpose) sweep the dining hall with the help of their counselor.
-Really loud at lights out or won't get in bed- go to bed earlier the following night.

Most of our punishments aren't very harsh. Granted, I have younger kids who don't break the rules often. For physical fighting we seperate the kids and have counselors talk to each of them to get a story from both and then we sit with the unit leader and discuss where to go from there.

Punishment must fit the crime though. It's not fair to take away swim time just because it's easy for the counselor. I really like having kids draw their consequences of their actions- really gets them thinking.

*Random story. When I was a camper one of the boys in my unit threw a live frog into our campfire. It really upset a lot of the other campers and it was just really disrespectful of nature. He had to sit and write a paper about respect and explain his action and and why he did what he did. I thought that was a good punishment.

[collissimon]

I agree with you campCardinal, I made a camper, who had repeated issues with respecting other people's personal space, I made a series of work sheets that he had to do during his favourite period (which was Soccer), because of the team environment.

He didn't improve completely all summer, but it did make an impact on his behaviour.

[CAMPFRIEND]

I agree with you campCardinal, I made a camper, who had repeated issues with respecting other people's personal space, I made a series of work sheets that he had to do during his favourite period (which was Soccer), because of the team environment.

He didn't improve completely all summer, but it did make an impact on his behaviour.

I am sure that you will see him next summer. You will get to start all over with him!

[collissimon]

I look forward to it :)

I'm a bit like that guy doomed to push a boulder up the mountain, for it to fall again for all eternity!

[CAMPFRIEND]

I look forward to it :)

I'm a bit like that guy doomed to push a boulder up the mountain, for it to fall again for all eternity!

Good thinking!!

[collissimon]

:D There is always that vain hope that they will take in what you say one day!

[CAMPFRIEND]

You can only hope. I know that it takes a lot but you can make a change in anyone. I have seen it!

[drink the wild air]

I'm not much of a punisher when it comes to camp. Seeing as how I am also a social worker I tend to go for the 'talking' approach. Its most important that the camper knows what it is they did wrong, why it was wrong, what provoked that, what can be done in the future to avoid it, etc. Usually there is something deeper down than we actually see behind a lot of the behavior. Especially when it comes down to real serious issues like eating disorders, self-mutilation, suicidal, running away, serious fighting with others, etc - all of which I have dealt with at camp.

If I do have to resort to a punishment I try to make it 'fit' the behavior. I have never done the pick up garbage or sticks unless it was for something like littering or throwing sticks cause they dont fit. And for some kids, esp little ones, it just agrevates them more cause they dont understand why.

[CAMPFRIEND]

I think you are right with talking with the campers. I know that a lot of us want to finy the fast way out as the summer goes on. I have seen you at work and you do a great job with all of the campers!

[daisy]

I'm a big fan of serious talks with campers, or having them write apology notes if they are rude, disrespectful, hurt someone, whatever... for younger kids, writing out a very brief note and having them copy it, works well, and older kids come up with some AMAZING notes.

[collissimon]

I think it depends with the little talks...

I used the talking route a lot in my first year, as an alternative to giving out consequences, but I found that the kid wasn't getting anything out of it (i.e. it wasn't going to change their behaviour), but I was (in that it saved me having to sort out a consequence). This wasn't deliberate, but it was good counselling either.

I think, because of the age of my campers, and many of them having attention difficulties, often a practical consequence is of more value than a talk that they phase out of.

I do think, though that specific talks i.e. This is what was wrong with your behaviour (and always making sure that they know you are talking about the behaviour, not them as an individual, so they don't internalise it etc. etc.), and this is what is going to be done about it. It is a short talk, but can be very effective.

[camper]

collissimon- i understand that your kids have attention difficulties and might respond to consequences...but i just can't see making a kid do worksheets at camp like you said you have done. what's your camp's take on it? what do they tell you to do to "punish" kids? i just find it interesting b/c we're not supposed to "punish" in any way.

[collissimon]

I tried to post this once, but my computer crashed, so here is take II!

Camp is fine with encourages giving out consequences, because punishments aren't the same as a consequence.

A Punishment is taking away something from the child, a form of retribution or anger or revenge. It doesn't try to change the child's behaviour, but sends a message out to society at whole to not repeat that behaviour.

A consequence is something that is directly connected to poor behaviour. It is an aid to prevent a child repeating the behaviour, and should be constructive by definition. It deals not with the child, but with the behaviour the child exhibits.

It is bounded by the behaviour the child shows, which punishments isn't, it has a specific time value (e.g. you have x mins off this activity).

This probably makes my camp seems like it's in Transylvania, not Pennsylvania! It's not, honest! It just reflects that the campers show positive behaviours and negative, and you need positive systems and negative ones to address them. The campers have an individual reward programme , where they get points, and choose what they do with their reward stickers. They also have group rewards, and we take a period off, or rest hour, and do what they vote for as a group. We've done PJ days, Glo-stick Discos, and sleepovers.

Consequences are a method to control a camper's negative behaviours, and apologise if it's not clear, feel free to ask anything that I've written about badly :D

[CAMPFRIEND]

I think that all of you are right. It depends on the campers that you are working with. Some kids you have to deal with in different ways. You can talk to some and others you can't. Every child is different!

[camper]

I understand why your camp does it for the most part, collissimon. i guess it's a different atmosphere than my camp...but now that i think of it we definitely subtly do have consequences, but not for individuals. for example, if a group is at lineup for a social and won't be quiet to listen for announcements, they'll have less time at the social. things like that. however, we go CRAZY for rewarding good behavior...more privileges, especially for the older groups, who behave very well or do certain things well.

[campCardinal]

I think it's really awesome to reward great behavior. At our camp kids are only there for a week, so it's sometimes hard. We can't really take out an activity or add in a special event because we have to follow our schedule. However, if we have a great week we'll let the kids stay up late on Friday and hang out and we'll do a really cool cabin chat to wrap up the week. One week me and my co bought our girls ice cream for the final night and we ate it right after dinner, we just took our girls away from the other cabins so others wouldn't see.

It's just something special that the kids love. I've had girls come back the next year and they'll say something like, "Remember our ice cream party!? That was one of my best nights at camp!" And it's just exciting to know they remember things like that and that they really are special to them.