Technique 2 (The Intervention w/o witnesses)

[speedx5xracer]

Situation 2 or more campers fighting
Effectiveness from experiences ****

Say that you are with your campers and two of them start fighting. Once you were able to stop them from fighting now you are stuck with the dilemma which camper to believe since you did not witness the start of the fight. So the first thing you do is like most of the techniques you must remove the involved parties from the rest of the group but still in view of other people. You sit the campers down and you join them on the same level. Don’t be afraid to lay down the ground rules before starting. Rules should cover topics such as no raising your voices, no directly addressing each other during the process, speaking during your turn only and the ruling is final. Once the rules are agreed upon address each party in turn. You should do this multiple times until you are content with the story that you were able to form from their accounts. After that you ask questions that will lead the involved parties to a resolution that solves the problem that you as well as the campers are content with. Be sure not to tell them the solution but lead them to figuring it out themselves by doing that it would mean more to them and be more effective in the long run. This process can take any where from 5 minutes to 2 hours.

[Dave]

I really liked your idea of laying out the ground rules before the questioning. I hate when kids start arguing while I'm trying to figure out what happened.

[collissimon]

I agree with that, but who earns the consequence?

I would say both of them, as both of them were fighting. I'd probably make them do something together. When I had two fighting, it happened to be the day we got laundry day so I sorted out all their laundry into different piles [eg. long pants etc.] handed Kid A's laundry pile by pile to Kid B and he put the other kids laundry away and vice versa.

I suppose it sounds a bit draconic, but I think I got the point across that you have to do something for one another when you fight.

Also, how if you have two really laying into one another, how do you physically intervene?

[Dave]

Also, how if you have two really laying into one another, how do you physically intervene?
Do you mean if they're physically fighting? Luckily I've never had to deal with too much physicality. But I guess you could just pull them apart, or step in between them.

[speedx5xracer]

I would have to agree with you Dave, The 2 fist fights i broke up i was able to pick up the kids and hold them apart (gotta love working w. the younger kids). As for concenquences, Collissimon some times the time spent doing this may be enogh to deter future occurances other wise after htey come up with their resolution I would step in and say that there are concenquesnces and the guilty party will be repremanded accordingly. But since time has already been "served" and a new system in place i would probably just take away flash light time or a portion of a rec period. I know other staff would make them do pitchers and trays for the next day or give them the worst of the chores the bunk has to do for 2 days or something to that nature. But in some cases especially with bullys direct concequences are only tempory.

[rockinsmiles]

if 2 campers are physically fighting and you are not big enough to actually pick them up (which i rarely am) step between them. campers rarely want to hit a counselor (even if they dont know you that well/like you that much). or if there is a bigger counselor around get them to help. i luckly havent ever had a big physical fight but have been around for what could have turned into one. i also think to stop the "but they started it!" agrument saying you dont care who started it. it will save you from an endless backwards story most of the time.

[speedx5xracer]

I actually got hit multiple times breaking up one fight. This one kid was the bully of the bunk and had no respect for any one even though he was 9 he weighed almots 90 pounds it was hard for me to pick him up and remove him. As i put him down and told the other kid to sit i turn my back for less than 5 seconds and he tries to punch me in the back. I was able to stop his hit by using approved restraining methods (aka no force just redirection of their own forces,) all this time he tried to hit me as well as kick me . He kicked me a few times before he tired himself out.

[Dave]

The only real fight I can remember from this past summer was on the bus, on the second to last day of camp. There were two sets of brothers: one ages 8, 7, and 4; the other age 6 (they were twins). Anyway, what happened was one of the twins started messing around with the four-year-old, who was pretty strong for a kid his age. The oldest of the brothers tried to intervene and pull them apart. It worked, but then the twin started fighting with him. Then the seven-year-old and the other twin started fighting.

Some other counselors were dealing with that fight, which was going on in the back of the bus, but me and another counselor were dealing with the one in front (with the 8-year-old). I got hold of the older one and tried to restrain him. At this point they were throwing punches left and right. The other counselor tried to get a hold of the twin. Well the kid elbowed me in the stomach a few times, and after about the fourth one I let go because it really started to hurt. So a few more punches were thrown and I managed to get him again. While I was holding him from behind I kept talking to him in his ear while he was trying to get free. Me and him were "friends" so he listened to me and I talked him out of fighting any more. (This is the kid who I talked about in the other thread, who first talked to me on the bus.) Anyway, I sat him down, buckled him in, and talked about what was going on. By this time we were pulling into camp. I told him to just forget about the other kid. He seemed to understand, and he seemed pretty calm.

Things went well until everyone was off of the bus. One of the twins started teasing the four-year-old again. They went at it. The kid who I was just talking with tried to separate them. The other twin started attacking him. I stepped off the bus and saw what was going on so I ran over and grabbed him again, while some counselors from another bus (as well as some senior staff) tried to hold back the other kids. We took them all to the nurse to clean up some scrapes, and then they all went to the trailer (equivalent to the office back in school, where the bad kids go). I have no idea what went on in there since I was told to go to my bunk.

But what a day that was. On the bus ride home that day every one of the kids involved had a counselor sitting with them the whole time to make sure nothing happened and luckily nothing did.

[collissimon]

As for concenquences, Collissimon some times the time spent doing this may be enogh to deter future occurances.

Hi Speedx,

Bearing in mind that I'm only speaking from the experience of one camp environment, but I would say that consequences are a vital part of the chain. Without consequences for poor behaviour, we have no deterrent for future poor behaviour. The kids that I work with would not connect the time lost discussing it with not doing it in the future. They would need a separate time or action to make amends. I would also suggest a physical thing to do rather than just missing time off something.

One of my favourite consequences is making a poster about how someone else feels, as it helps foster empathy. One kid this year was horrendous with personal space, and after warning after warning, I made him do a 'personal space' book, where he had to do a series of worksheets about personal space, and he had the book to take away with him. It didn't resolve his behaviour completely but it did help with a reminder.

Sorry, went a bit on a tangent there!

[happy_camper]

We haven't had any real physical fights that I know of, but last summer we had a 4 year old boy who had serious (undiagnosed) problems. He had ADHD but in an EXTREMELY violent way. He would punch or kick another camper, and we would remove him from the situation. We would tend to the victim camper, usually giving them a popsicle and telling them it was not their fault and not to be upset. Meanwhile, the 4 year old is punching, kicking, and biting us as we remove him from the situation. There is literally NO WAY to punish/stop this kid's actions. We've talked to his parents, and they deny that he did any of this. Our counselors (including myself) have literally come away with bruises from this child. It was crazy, to say the least.

[speedx5xracer]

We haven't had any real physical fights that I know of, but last summer we had a 4 year old boy who had serious (undiagnosed) problems. He had ADHD but in an EXTREMELY violent way. He would punch or kick another camper, and we would remove him from the situation. We would tend to the victim camper, usually giving them a popsicle and telling them it was not their fault and not to be upset. Meanwhile, the 4 year old is punching, kicking, and biting us as we remove him from the situation. There is literally NO WAY to punish/stop this kid's actions. We've talked to his parents, and they deny that he did any of this. Our counselors (including myself) have literally come away with bruises from this child. It was crazy, to say the least.
I had a similar camper the past two years, my first year with him I had no idea what to do to calm him. After talking with my directors i was told to use non force restraining techniques. They worked for the most part. when removing the child. I now baby sit for the family, since i am one of five people who can control their son. Its all a matter of relating to the kid and figuring out what works. I will be glad to discuss this more with you happy_camper if you want PM me for my aim detail.

[collissimon]

Hey!

The key with disruptive or violent behaviour is to look for the WHY behind it: even if the camper has ADHD, there will still be a reason for why he is acting in such a way. Is it frustration? Has one of the others annoyed him?

Also, when he is hitting you, is he aiming to hit you, or has he got to the point where he has lost all control and is lashing out at everything around him?

If it is the latter, you did the best thing by isolating him. You do however need to deal with the situation when he is calm enough to talk. There are then loads of different options that you can take, depending on what he says.

Hope this helps!

[speedx5xracer]

Collissimon that is so true and in many cases all it takes is a conversation with the kid to figure out how to prevent or minimize future occurrences. As a student of psychology I usually can get a good read and use that in the future. But still thats a whole different story. And it involves skills that you must figure out on your own and cant teach to others. The best advice to to try different techniques to solve problems and use what works and improve on what doesnt

[ncfanton]

I must say that, that is one situation in which I have had the unfortunate experince of being in. I will say that any time that a camper becomes physcial with any other camper, or staff that it is the primary duty of us as staff to protect and maintain some semblance of peace for the victim(s), and the agressor(s). In that situation, the one mentioned above if it becomes such a problem there may become the need to assign a one-on-one staffer. I have worked in groups that involve mentally disabled adults and some times having the staff there for the child/adult is what is needed to avoid the situation in itself. Now in reality it is not always possible to to that in that case that child and ALL staff involved need to have a sit down with the parents to disscus options.

[KidzCamp]

Originally Posted by happy_camper
"4 year old boy who had serious (undiagnosed) problems. He had ADHD but in an EXTREMELY violent way. He would punch or kick another camper, and we would remove him from the situation. We would tend to the victim camper, usually giving them a popsicle and telling them it was not their fault and not to be upset. Meanwhile, the 4 year old is punching, kicking, and biting us as we remove him from the situation. There is literally NO WAY to punish/stop this kid's actions. We've talked to his parents, and they deny "



Happy Camper,
It still stumps me how much about ADHD is so widely misunderstood. Everyone wants to label every child with it if they are inattentive or violent...that is usually not the case. THIS sounds to me more like this child suffers from ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) IF that is the case the best way to deal with the child is to give him choices SCENERIO 1: (name) you need to stop hitting or kicking me now. You can either stop now or you will be sitting in time out for 4 minutes. It's your choice...(DOESNT STOP???) offer another choice not so great. OKay fine I see your not going to stop kicking or hitting me at this point you have earned a 4 minute time out if you stop immediately or you will be sitting inside for the next hour without time playing with your friends. What's your choice??? (DOESNT STOP???) okay then if you continue to kick or hit me and don't stop immediately (name) then you will be sitting inside for the next hour and your friends will be outside playing " whatever they are doing", OR you I will be calling your mom & dad and asking them to come pick you up early, which I am sure they will not be pleased about. YOU Definitely need to follow through with this offering less desireable things so you always start with BEST/GOOD option, then move to GOOD/FAIR option, then FAIR/BAD option and you make sure you follow through. Also make sure they know they control each choice...this is good for kids with ODD to know they have choices & teaches them to think of these scenerio's themselves after awhile of doing these types of exercises.

For an older child I would tell them they will be earning a "practice session" if they continue with the poor choices they are making...

Hope this helps.